Trouble Code Definitions
What are the most common EV codes?
- Thread starter jordanr
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nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Isolation codes, OBC failures, BMS systems codes and I think we are going see to alot of relays welding, I read an article the other day, alot of tow truck guys are scared to tow them. The actual cells them selves are pretty solid, but sure, those will degrade over time.
The mitsubishi one has me on fence a bit, doesn't seem sturdy enough for the climate we have, I have seen with some strange things going on. And I have read here and there, a battery pack for the Imiev is something like 19k usa dollars, so alot of these are going to be on market as I linked to Billr. Some audtion site are showing mint condition cars "with undercarriage damage" listed as why it is at auction. No one wants to touch them yet. But the market will evolve, but again, I must stress the safety issue.
Cuz if I am doing my math right, lets use the kia soul as base line. 356v I think as of 2020, they up the pack and modified the motor, but it is the amps that stagger my mind when we go testing these at school, I will probably get over that as I train and execute.
So I download a useful tool called ohms law calculator cuz I am do lazy to whip out a pencil sometimes, if you want, find that on google play. Cool app when you have to pass a test.
so at 356v more than enough amps to kill anybody. Mostly, I will have to beware later on to not get to comfortable. Cuz when you get comfy, you get dangerous.
So alot of the guys laugh at the safety, can't stress that one enough, this will kill you if you make a wrong move.
The mitsubishi one has me on fence a bit, doesn't seem sturdy enough for the climate we have, I have seen with some strange things going on. And I have read here and there, a battery pack for the Imiev is something like 19k usa dollars, so alot of these are going to be on market as I linked to Billr. Some audtion site are showing mint condition cars "with undercarriage damage" listed as why it is at auction. No one wants to touch them yet. But the market will evolve, but again, I must stress the safety issue.
Cuz if I am doing my math right, lets use the kia soul as base line. 356v I think as of 2020, they up the pack and modified the motor, but it is the amps that stagger my mind when we go testing these at school, I will probably get over that as I train and execute.
So I download a useful tool called ohms law calculator cuz I am do lazy to whip out a pencil sometimes, if you want, find that on google play. Cool app when you have to pass a test.
so at 356v more than enough amps to kill anybody. Mostly, I will have to beware later on to not get to comfortable. Cuz when you get comfy, you get dangerous.
So alot of the guys laugh at the safety, can't stress that one enough, this will kill you if you make a wrong move.
I agree, this forum probably needs a robust HV "safety" disclaimer, for both ethical and CYA purposes.
However, it is my understanding that current through your body is the key factor; as little as 10 mA through the heart area can stop your heart signals. So, I think it matters how you are shocked. Grabbing live wires with each hand pretty much ensures the current will have to go near the heart area, but touching a live circuit with one hand while standing on damp ground not-so-much. The HV "requirement" is simply because your body alone has quite a bit of electrical resistance; back to that Ohm's Law bit as to how much current you will experience.
PS: is the relay welding problem going to mean resurgence of mercury-displacement relays???
However, it is my understanding that current through your body is the key factor; as little as 10 mA through the heart area can stop your heart signals. So, I think it matters how you are shocked. Grabbing live wires with each hand pretty much ensures the current will have to go near the heart area, but touching a live circuit with one hand while standing on damp ground not-so-much. The HV "requirement" is simply because your body alone has quite a bit of electrical resistance; back to that Ohm's Law bit as to how much current you will experience.
PS: is the relay welding problem going to mean resurgence of mercury-displacement relays???
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nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
jordanr
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Ok. Will work on a safety post to sticky...
Going to be interesting how DIY evolves related to EVs. Will the high voltage scare people off? Or maybe the excitement will bring in new and different people...going to shake things up I think and we are getting closer to mass adoption.
Going to be interesting how DIY evolves related to EVs. Will the high voltage scare people off? Or maybe the excitement will bring in new and different people...going to shake things up I think and we are getting closer to mass adoption.
nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
I have to go to work, but was in school yesterday, working in the shop on low volt side. Again, common codes,
Low 14v battery codes, 14v DC/DC convertor not charging. Was using tricked cars to find common problems using scanner. One had codes, other did not.
I will come back to this tonight, my school book is in my car right now next to my parking pass, has the codes in it and my findings.
I will post back, But yes, it may scare some ppl, but mostly, as the tech gets older and out of warranty, necessity will embark ppl to overcome that as prices will skyrocket in the shops to get these things fixed. Cuz alot of shops will still have no one who is trained and even they will start to see benefits of sites such as this to find some sort of info. The manufacturers have stopped giving out free info of late, especially EV cars that are now daily over 350+volts.
That also, is cause they don't want to get sued. I have nothing to base that on, just common sense tells me a few layers got together and said, to many risks involved.
My teacher has put a few videos on youtube. Thought I may include a few pertinent ones here.
This is his channel, this one is very nice, you see some of the precautions taken, such as three pairs of gloves when working on high volt capacitors and going about reading them. Yes it is in french, so learning that is cool also if your so inclined.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT5nbqSAYpJKpD5n6cVm0qw
Low 14v battery codes, 14v DC/DC convertor not charging. Was using tricked cars to find common problems using scanner. One had codes, other did not.
I will come back to this tonight, my school book is in my car right now next to my parking pass, has the codes in it and my findings.
I will post back, But yes, it may scare some ppl, but mostly, as the tech gets older and out of warranty, necessity will embark ppl to overcome that as prices will skyrocket in the shops to get these things fixed. Cuz alot of shops will still have no one who is trained and even they will start to see benefits of sites such as this to find some sort of info. The manufacturers have stopped giving out free info of late, especially EV cars that are now daily over 350+volts.
That also, is cause they don't want to get sued. I have nothing to base that on, just common sense tells me a few layers got together and said, to many risks involved.
My teacher has put a few videos on youtube. Thought I may include a few pertinent ones here.
This is his channel, this one is very nice, you see some of the precautions taken, such as three pairs of gloves when working on high volt capacitors and going about reading them. Yes it is in french, so learning that is cool also if your so inclined.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT5nbqSAYpJKpD5n6cVm0qw
Maybe of some concern with lithium ion batteries:
Samsung cell phones had a major recall, any shorts across these batteries can even result in an explosion. Also so-called commercial aircraft were downed due to carrying lithium batteries.. Many cells have to be connected in series to get a reasonable running voltage, only takes one cell to short out.
And batteries are not a source of energy but rather a medium to store energy and any type of energy storage can result in huge problem. Still need a source of energy to charge these things and any conversion of energy results in a loss. And even a major loss of energy in cold climates.
Samsung cell phones had a major recall, any shorts across these batteries can even result in an explosion. Also so-called commercial aircraft were downed due to carrying lithium batteries.. Many cells have to be connected in series to get a reasonable running voltage, only takes one cell to short out.
And batteries are not a source of energy but rather a medium to store energy and any type of energy storage can result in huge problem. Still need a source of energy to charge these things and any conversion of energy results in a loss. And even a major loss of energy in cold climates.
nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Yes, this is a major concern for us up here.
Alot of low volt codes we are also seeing is caused by ppl not understanding the tech.
Some EV cars are designed around a lead low volt battery, most are designed around an AGM battery, a very few use lithium low 14v accessory battery.
So if some idiot puts in a lead battery in a AGM designed system, the BCMS is going to have some problems, and eventually code, sooner rather than later, they don't have the same curve as lets say a lead.
This is why most HV cells are in series parallel. Designed to prevent the last part of your above comment.
nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
@NickD,
One of the major design flaws I have seen all across the board so far on hybrids, so we exclude full EV's here, is this.
Once the car is plugged into the lets say home bound second stage charger, 120-240.
So, once you buy the car, one common question is, if I go on vacation for a few weeks, or more, will my car go? Most say yes, and they mislead the client. We are swapping a huge amount of new low voltage cell/batteries because they freeze.
We tested on site at the school no more than 6 different hybrids from different generations, they ALL acted the same.
Once HV cell and low v batt are fully charged, and the home bound charger (per say), we induced a load test while dormant, causing low volt bat to go below specified values, the charging did not kick back on to charge the low volt cell. If the high volt goes below, it kicks on, not for the low v batt. So, when your gone, you were told by dealer, just leave it plugged in. This is erroneous, and misleading. Leaving clients to have to boost the low volt bat after lets say prolonged vacay. But when left at -20c for that long, can't boost, it fing frozen and agrd to deal with for the basic person. Not ideal, don't know why this is not understood by manufacturers that the bcms also needs to monitor the low volt and charge accordingly.
One of the major design flaws I have seen all across the board so far on hybrids, so we exclude full EV's here, is this.
Once the car is plugged into the lets say home bound second stage charger, 120-240.
So, once you buy the car, one common question is, if I go on vacation for a few weeks, or more, will my car go? Most say yes, and they mislead the client. We are swapping a huge amount of new low voltage cell/batteries because they freeze.
We tested on site at the school no more than 6 different hybrids from different generations, they ALL acted the same.
Once HV cell and low v batt are fully charged, and the home bound charger (per say), we induced a load test while dormant, causing low volt bat to go below specified values, the charging did not kick back on to charge the low volt cell. If the high volt goes below, it kicks on, not for the low v batt. So, when your gone, you were told by dealer, just leave it plugged in. This is erroneous, and misleading. Leaving clients to have to boost the low volt bat after lets say prolonged vacay. But when left at -20c for that long, can't boost, it fing frozen and agrd to deal with for the basic person. Not ideal, don't know why this is not understood by manufacturers that the bcms also needs to monitor the low volt and charge accordingly.
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nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
What are your thoughts on that NickD?
nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
So this means you have to educate the client that with all of these cars, you need to also have a trickle charger on the low volt as well. Again, not ideal to explain to the lady, or guy for that matter, who thinks her hybrid will start all the time and go forward even if the low cell is flat. Nope, the HV cell won't engage untill it sees at least specified value on low volt. 
This is something that we talked about at school, eve the teacher is dumbfounded why now even second and third gen hybrids are not using a different algorythm to solve this.
This is something that we talked about at school, eve the teacher is dumbfounded why now even second and third gen hybrids are not using a different algorythm to solve this.
nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
And in some cases, have seen ppl boosting AGM batteries with traditional lead battery boosters, (big no-no) half the time you do that, you just reduced the life span of that AGM or just plain cooked it for good, even if it was at first recuperable. God forbid if it is a lithium one, very rare, only seeing that in very rare cases. So my focus is on AGM.
nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Educating a client, well that starts with the person selling the car. If he is not educated himself, he says stupid shit like I just wrote above. Just leave the home charger plugged in, you will have no problem.
Tell that to the CAA guys, who also have no education and boost the shyte of that gas matt, never get the damn thing to move, then tow it to me. Or others similar to me/
Being CAA approved doesn't mean your smart and knowledgeable.
Tell that to the CAA guys, who also have no education and boost the shyte of that gas matt, never get the damn thing to move, then tow it to me. Or others similar to me/
Being CAA approved doesn't mean your smart and knowledgeable.
nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
SO the design flaw is this, in my opinion, as well as every one in my "provisoire" class, including the teachers, why is the OBC not getting a command from the BCMS to charge low 14v circuit, it is after all monitored in awake stage, why NOT in dormant stage?????
This is ESPECIALLY tru for cold climates we/you were talking about.
I look forward to your answer NickD, you always have good insight on these things with a different perspective/
@billr, maybe you can chime in on that one also, your wording makes me think sometimes, and trust me, I do research everything you write..
This is ESPECIALLY tru for cold climates we/you were talking about.
I look forward to your answer NickD, you always have good insight on these things with a different perspective/
@billr, maybe you can chime in on that one also, your wording makes me think sometimes, and trust me, I do research everything you write.
.
nickb2
Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Actually, I forgot, Billr started a thread on BCMS. Mybe I should have posted that there. But was afraid to lose NickD in that convo, I respect his opinions also as much as everyone else.