Engine mount Ford Escape

Discussion in 'Domestics' started by billj, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. billj

    billj MR BILL

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    2005 Ford Escape 2.3 liter 4 Cly FWD 94,000 miles. I am going to talk old school here. I want to change the upper motor mount on my Escape. The engine only needs to be lifted less than an inch. An engine lift cost $1700.00. My question, and I'm sure I'll hear it from some of you, I want to jack up the engine from underneath. A doubled up large square piece of 3/4" plywood under the engine/transmission jacked up with a couple floor jacks about an inch. This is the way we did it with 400 and 455 CI Pontiac engines jacking on the oil pan. So...thoughts please.
     
  2. Mobile Dan

    Mobile Dan wrench

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    I don't know your exact needs but I will say that sometimes I use a bottle jack to push on the head of a oil pan bolt to get some lift.
     
  3. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    Yeah, I like pushing on something other than the pan. I'm always afraid I will compress the pan gasket more than it already is, then when weight is taken off the pan, it will start to leak. Not saying I haven't done it, just that I try to avoid it...
     
  4. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    The upper motor mount by the timing chain cover? Replaced or removed those on a four cylinder just by lifting the engine with my left hand. To hold it up there when removed, used a 2 by4 between the firewall and radiator bracket, used a 600 pound rope and tied it up.

    Back in the good old days, we never had the luxury of a hoist. Removed the heads, dropped the transmission, and two of us could lift the engine by hand.
     
  5. Jim Fairbanks

    Jim Fairbanks wrench

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    I wouldn't have a problem doing it that way...if you can maybe lift it up on the crank pulley, but with a piece of plywood on the pan would work...after all....you are only lifting the end of the engine up a little on the end....not the whole engine....Jim
     
  6. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Assume you are replacing this:

    [​IMG]

    Typically that is a rubber bushing with some kind of clamp around it. Sure that clamp isn't loose or is the rubber shot? Engine typically pivots on the center mounted lower mounts with a seasaw effect.

    When I had to drop that TH-400 off my 454 block, made a U shaped piece out of an old 2 by 6, to catch the edge of the pan where the pan bolts are. Now that had some weight on it, Pace Arrow wasn't exactly nice about building a floor around the bell housing after the engine and transmission was installed. Had to drop the rear of the engine a bit over an inch to clear that floor so I could pull the transmission back for bell housing clearance.

    Used a scissors jack on a stack of Douglas fir blocks, they are not noted for leaking hydraulic fluid.
     
  7. billj

    billj MR BILL

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    NickD, yes the mount in the picture is what I want to replace. I can.t see any of the rubber in the mount. There is a cap and I can not see anything under the cap.
     
  8. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Certainly some confusion with a FWD, is the engine or the vehicle the reference? 90 degrees out of phase. Normally one front of the engine upper, and two mounts in the center or rear of the engine lower.

    For the lower, what I do with the vehicle up on oil changing ramps. Measure the distance from the side of the pan to the floor, cut a 1 by 6 about a half inch longer. Raise the vehicle put that board in there against the pan bolts and lower it again to take the weight off the mount. Would cut off the base of that board, screw it to another piece of 1 by 6 and add a couple of 2 by 4 blocks for more stability. Have fun with my power screwdriver.

    Course, then it depends upon the pan, a farm tractor uses a forged pan, that 454 with a heavy cast iron block used a piece of tin, a lightweight little four aluminum engine may have a cast aluminum pan, where just putting a block at the side of the pan would be enough.
     
  9. billj

    billj MR BILL

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    I took a look at the top mount. My Escape has a cast pan so I stacked up some 2x8's so that they would fit under the pan with jacking up the vehicle until the engine raised up about 1/4", then put the 2x8's under the pan and let it down. I took the bracket off that goes from the engine to the top of the mount. There is a rubber cap between the mount and the engine bracket. This rubber cap is hard and cracked, it may have cracked when I removed it. The other thing I noticed, and maybe it is machined this way, the bottom 1/4" or so of the center bolt that goes through the bracket into the top center of the mount has most of the threads worn down, or machined? The bolt was also very rusty. The base of the mount looked OK, but most of the rubber is encased in metal. It looks like the rubber cap is sold with the mount, or I would try changing the cap to see if it helps. This is about an $80 mount so I hate to just throw money at it. The other mounts look good to me, no cracks or tears, not a lot of movement. So...to change....or not to change
    :-\
     

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  10. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Seem to have better luck in finding metric bolt at Fleet Farm, Menards, or True value in town, rather than any of the automotive supply stores. Of course had to buy complete sets of English and metric dies and taps, due to the cheap unplated rolled cold roll steel bolts that are used.

    Also tend to cheat when bolt comes out with the threads on a casting. Will redrill the hole and either go to the next larger size, mostly English using grade A bolts and tap the hole, also enlarging the hole in whatever that bolt goes through. This was never a problem before, is now. Worse sin in the world is using dissimilar materials, guess they are not teaching that in schools anymore.

    Strange your upper mount is going so quick, usually the lower mounts with valve cover oil leaking down on them. When I see a used vehicle like that, just walk away. Must be yet another POS from China.
     
  11. Mobile Dan

    Mobile Dan wrench

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    I suspect that sometimes "rubber" loses elasticity with time, and a mount transfers more energy/vibration to the car body. Eventually the stiffer "rubber" cracks and the mount worsens.

    Some mount designs sag with age and begin to transfer more vibration due to that change. That motor/trans is not made of structural foam (yet).
     
  12. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Sure going around in a circle on this issue, started off with motor mount problems, then ending up with the same problem. So assume the vibration problem is still present.

    Some fours use a counter-balance shaft to help correct this problem, but this can be questioned. While the end result will seemingly be an engine with less vibration, the internal stresses of this vibration are still there. More like a tradeoff than a cure.

    Typically with defective motor mounts, get a clunk from shifting from forward to reverse or vice versa. Does clamping an engine really get rid of vibrations? Or does it just lessen the overall effects? Henry's cure for a counterweight less crankshaft was to employ a 67 pound flywheel to lessen vibrations. But those poured babbitt bearings sure took a beating. Final and correct solution was to use a countered weighted crankshaft.

    And is the engine at fault for this vibration or is it the drivetrain? Hate when I read a manual that tells you to mark all the holes and put it back together again the way it was as the entire driving train was dynamically balanced. So what do you do when a component has to be replaced? Guess if you end up with a vibration, have to have the entire drivetrain rebalanced or learn how to live with it if a vibration occurs.

    Did you have this vehicle since new? If so, what happened over time to cause this vibration if it wasn't there when new?
     
  13. billj

    billj MR BILL

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    We bought the 2005 Escape with about 15,000 miles on it. The wife drove it until about the 80,000 mark. She then bought a 2011 Escape about May of 2012, I traded in my Ranger on the 2011 and started driving the 05 Escape. The vibration came on slowly, in fact I'm not sure when it started, maybe six months ago? A tune up, PCV valve and hose, cleaned the TB and Idle control, new tranny fluid. All this helped some, but still a vibration when stopped and in gear. You can feel it in the steering wheel also. The 05 runs great, only issue is the vibration.
     
  14. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    What about those new intake manifold gaskets? How much is your idle dropping when shifted into gear? Should be close to zero.
     
  15. billj

    billj MR BILL

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    When putting in gear the idle drops maybe a 100 RPM for a second or two and then recovers to about 750 RPM
     

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