Briggs & Stratton made by Jiangsu Jiangdong Group?

Discussion in 'Small Engines' started by billr, May 1, 2015.

  1. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    I am looking for info on an engine that is liberally labelled "Briggs and Stratton", but none of the numbers I find on it are listed by B&S. There is one number that takes me to an EO from the Calif. Air Resources Board (CARB), and that EO was issued to Jiangsu Jiangdong Group. If anybody is bored or super-assiduous and can track some of this down, it may keep me from going crazy! Here are the numbers I am finding on the engine.

    Printed emissions-compliance label:
    DJDGS.4202UA, DJDGPNHEQ003, CM10, 420cc, date-of manufacture is Dec. 2013, 381386

    Stamped into crankcase (a hard-to-read dot-matrix stamp, like S-series Saturns):
    1312161600110, 25T(F?)2320027F(P?)1... 25T2320027F1
     
  2. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    Well, I'm pretty certain the correct # is 25T232-0027-F1. They omitted the hyphens when stamping the # into the crankcase. I am finding info/parts for a 25T232-0037-F1, it looks like the same engine; I need to find out what difference that one character in the P/N means.
     
  3. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Another throwaway part. Around 20 years ago could buy a new piston connecting rod assembly for my 1970 Lawn Boy for seven bucks, can still get it today, but for 85 bucks. With did have a small engine parts store in town, they shut their doors over ten years ago. Have the internet left, but if you need two parts, cheaper to buy a new lawn mower.

    Purchased a Honda on a Craftsmans lawn mower for 225 bucks, got curious on parts cost for engines so went to the Sears parts website. Can only buy the entire engine for 367 bucks for a 225 buck lawn mower? Wonder how many engines they sell? May be worth it on a lawn tractor but all depends on what it cost.

    So was just wondering what you would do if you did locate this engine? Did learn a couple of things, they last a lot longer using ethanol free gas and using synthetic motor oil. Pushing fuel stabilizer now, but sure doesn't correct the corrosive effects of ethanol. Sure doesn't help the people where ethanol is the only fuel available.

    EPA got rid of the mixture adjustments over ten years ago. just a tad of film on the jets can keep these things from starting. Least with mixture controls could screw these in counting turns to clean the jets than back them out again. Can't do this anymore. What repair shops we have left just insist on replacing the carburetor. This can cause the consumer a small fortune.
     
  4. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    Okay, I have found a manual and IPB for this (25T232-0027-F1). I bought it "as is, needing some TLC". Overall it looks pretty clean and little-used, but the air filter and muffler need patching, and the governor linkages need fixing. There is spark and it fires easily on a quick blast of starting-fluid. However, the compression is low, the best I can get is about 60 psi, both wet and dry. It is an OHV head, but I think the CR is only 8:1; still I would expect that to give 120 psi or so. By comparison, and old small flat-head engine gives about 100 psi with the same gauge.

    Now to my question: I did some leak-down testing, the valves and rings seem OK, but I quickly notice that the exhaust valve re-opens a little just after the intake closes and the exhaust stays open until about 90 BTDC on the compression stroke. Is anybody familiar with such timing? Is the an Atkinson cycle, or maybe some kind of full-time EGR? I'm now thinking that the core engine is OK, I just have to fix the minor stuff. I don't see how the exhaust could be opening that way unless it is built-in to the cam lobe(s).
     
  5. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    Atkinson, Miller, Isky 5-cycle... they are all pretty much the same thing; the intake valve is left open longer in the compression stroke. That's not what I have here, with the exhaust re-opening during compression. It makes no sense to me, seems like it would just pump some of the fuel/air charge out into the muffler to burn there, with no power benefit. I wonder if that is why the muffler is the only thing that looks "well used" on this engine, it has been cooked with that fiery exhaust?
     
  6. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    For anybody who is curious, this video explains it. I couldn't see it in the IPB because the mechanism is all hidden behind the drive gear in the view shown in the IPB.

     
  7. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Hi guys, maybe new thread, just got back from being away for a month, have a buddy, his briggs 5hp won't start, says spark is weak. Should I just order a tune up for this or are any of you guys have tips or tricks. I will see this briggs on monday and post back findings. What would be secondary resistance on coil? I will post pics as I have fun with this, should be no more than a few minutes to check.

    Anyways, good to be back, a month without BAT is like a dope fiend without drugs.
     
  8. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    I am bringing my compression guage to the party and will bring the spark tester to see what KV's it throws. I have no more info than this. A briggs, 5hp, and it's a chewer/mulcher. Maybe my french got in the way, but think mulcther is right terminology.
     
  9. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    Once you have a chance to check it out in person, a new thread may serve you better. Try to get the B&S model # for the engine. If nothing else, let us know if it is OHV or flat-head. Glad you are back!
     
  10. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    My new problem is that it starts and runs OK... but I can't stop it! Take a look at the attached picture of the "ignition system". The high-voltage winding is about 10K ohms to ground. At the bottom of the coil is a QD terminal (with wire on it in pic) that is about 1 ohm to ground when the wire is disconnected. There are no wires coming out from behind the flywheel, so I'm thinking no breaker-points or anything else. I think this doesn't use a true coil "primary", it just fires the plug as the magnet on the flywheel passes the poles of the coil core. So, that other terminal is maybe connected to a winding that is shorted to stop the engine, dumping the magnetic field there rather than in the secondary? However, there are two other QD terms in the pic, at the end of a small cable that is hooked into the flywheel fins for the picture-taking. One of those terms goes to ground (the lower screw fastening the coil), and the other wire goes to the lower QD term on the coil; as well as on to a oil-level switch. I thought, for sure, that just jumping those two free QDs together would stop the engine... but it didn't. Is anybody familiar with this particular type ignition system?
     

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  11. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Ok, two questions. You took resistance mesurment on a foot of secondary wire, and got 10k ohm. That is on par.

    So first question,

    I like reading sherlock holmes. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle used this in one of his novels. When you eliminate the impossible, only the possible remains.

    Could it be Bill? that the cam lobe on exhaust time is rounded? Maybe that could account for excessive heat? I do not believe that such a archaic engine has EGR on board. I could be wrong.

    However, this does not account for the fact that the engine will not stop with the kill switch.
     
  12. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    I'm way past the compression release question. That video attached in my reply on May 5th explains what is going on there. I have even taken the side cover off the crankcase (chasing a governor problem) and can feel that little centrifugal-force-operated thingy behind the cam drive gear. I agree, no EGR, but this is an OHV engine made late in 2013, not all that "archaic"... The 10K ohms I measured was the coil secondary winding (to ground), not the plug wire. There is no kill switch that I have found so far, I figured those two free female QDs connected to one on the throttle linkage, but don't see anything yet and shorting them together did not kill the engine.
     
  13. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Well, Bill, just got back from checking out that multcher. I am greased up to my eyeballs, Compression was 90. I tried to respace the magneto, no go. Good spark enough to give me a tug. Thinking this needs a new coil/magnoto, but have to remove back of engine to get to the magneto.

    4 your info, it is a fergey and the age of this thing is 1968. My buddy says his dad bought this back in the day. So to make a long story short. I pulled the crank and about four times I almost pulled a few muscles. Suffice to say that when I pulled the front cover off, no surprise, no grease and the lock bearings black as night.

    I said I was going to take pics, sorry, forgot my cell phone. When I saw the state of this old briggs, I said to my friend, cut your loss. The mulcth shaft was in bad need of tender care.

    I must say, they did make them tough back in the day. I also beleive I need to say it is a TILLER and not a multcher. Any ways. an adventure down memory lane. The only link I could find to show you this horrendous things is this.

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=1968...2FOEM%2FMassey-Ferguson%2FTiller.aspx;560;420
     
  14. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    Unless you guys are having fun with this, or it has sentimental value, I agree that it is time to give up on it. A front-tine tiller isn't all that useful or valuable even when new. If he really wants to use it, a comparable new engine can be had for about $200.
     
  15. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    So now I feel bad cuz I promised my friend that I was going to fix it.

    I called around for parts for this thing, no wonder. So a freind of mine said you can put an electric.

    Personally, not going down that road.
     

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