92 honda Accord mice chewed control box wiring wont start now !

Discussion in 'Import Vehicles' started by Parkman, Oct 9, 2017.

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What does this control box do? and what can I do so I can move it around my lot?

  1. How to wire control box just to move car

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  2. Don't really care how well it runs just want to move it !

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  1. Parkman

    Parkman Sr. Member

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    Please fill out the following to ask a question.

    MAKE: Honda
    MODEL:Accord
    YEAR:1992
    MILES:184000
    ENGINE:16 valve
    DESCRIBE ISSUE.... mice chewed wiring badly at the control box plug ins , wont run now, did run good would like to move car on its own power! waiting for title so I would like to move it else where on my property, car belonged to son-inlaws father who passes away and is said to have lien on it !
     
  2. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    Post a picture of the box in question and the damaged wiring. I have no clue what that poll above means or is asking for.
     
  3. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Really only two modules on this car and a main relay.

    One is a BCM, body control module, the the ECM, engine control module. If your main relay connector got chewed, that is easy to fix.

    Here is a picture of the main relay. Is this what got chewed?

    Screenshot (4).png
     
  4. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    However, if this is where the mice nested and chewed at, this is going to take a bit more effort.

    Would this picture more resemble the affected location?

    Screenshot (5).png
     
  5. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    I am pretty sure honda in those days called the BCM an integrated control module. That one would be located behind of left side kick panel.

    Any of these three modues will cause a no start situation if affected. So as Billr said, a picture would be worth a thousand words.
     
  6. Parkman

    Parkman Sr. Member

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    No this is control box 3600-PT 3- AO1 AA3 it houses the MAP sensor purge valve&Frequency sensor. Will probably need a new map sensor and wiring harness where it comes out of the firewall to the control box. Anyway will not run without these sensors. Guess I will be visiting a junk yard if I want it to run again.
     
  7. Parkman

    Parkman Sr. Member

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  8. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Would this be the affected area? If so, no way this engine will run unless some major modifications are done as the ECU will not allow engine to run as it needs these essential inputs to work.

    Screenshot (6).png
     
  9. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    You could try capping off the vacuums at engine and trying to bypass reference voltages to sensor grounds to try to fool the ECU to run, but it will run very poorly, but maybe just enough to run the car around the lot. But remember, you have no EGR, no MAP inputs going into the ECU. Daunting task to fool that ECU with so much bad info.

    The MAP sensor wants to give approx 1 volt @ 20hg vac. Approx 3volts @ 0hg vac. That ECU needs this info to calibrate PGM-FI/injection. The ECU needs to know the pressure differential as a voltage signal, and if the MAP can't send that as a proper input, basically what I am trying to say, it will run like shyte whatever you try.

    PGM-fi means programmable fuel injection, and the main sensor that does that is the MAP sensor among others.

    So I think I have said what I can say here without sounding like an idiot.
     
  10. Parkman

    Parkman Sr. Member

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    Thanks Nick yes that is the source of my troubles and you have explained it perfectly. The other wires chewed coming out of the firewall must be from the computer. would have to find a junk yard donor and cut the wiring harness there and replace the map sensor and connections to make it run right. But I am hoping my son-in-law will just have it towed away by one of those salvage people. At least thanks to you I know why it wont run at all ! Thanks again! ( Darn Mice) ! LOL
     
  11. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Actually, I made a small typo, but after realizing this, it just kind of hits home more of why I think the only way to make this engine run without major modification such as trying to carb it etc which is not easy to do. Here is an exert of my typo. Before, I wrote programmable which is where my french got in the way and I was wrong to write it that way which should imply that you could program the ECU to run with your own input-ed values.

    They made a ton of these cars and the parts you need are very easy to find, and splicing in wires and such is easy to do but takes time. So if you decide to give it a go, I will happily provide you with all the wiring schematics you can print out so your sure which wires are which since the mice got to them.

    I am correcting myself for informational purposes for others who may fall on this thread and think a honda accord of this era can be programmed without major modifications.

    Exert here. Key word to know and understand is "proprietary"

    Programmed Fuel Injection, or PGMFI/PGM-FI, is the name given by Honda to a proprietary digital electronic fuel injection system for internal combustion engines which injects the right amount of fuel per cylinder based on specific engine data, available since the early 1980s.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  12. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    SO to further what I was trying to say, is that a PGM-fi engine does not usually, if ever, rely on a MAF (mass air flow) sensor but on a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) system.

    In some cases you will see an engine use both a vacuum sensor/MAP in conjuction with a MAF sensor. In example, a pontiac firebird and other similar cars. Those were fun :mad: to diagnose if you had limited diagnostic tools and low experience when confronted with a no start/stalling car as both sensors could induce the same symptoms.

    For example, a shorted MAP sensor will usually cause engine stall, or run very poorly. In the case of a bad MAF sensor, basically same symptoms but both systems work in a completely different way. SO like I wrote before, a MAP sensor tells the ECM where it is at, such as idle or WOT (wide open throttle) by measuring vacuum and converting that to a voltage signal which the ECU uses in tandem with the TPS sensor and other various sensors to properly inject fuel in tandem with a pre-programed algorithm specific to "X" manufacturer, such as honda, bosch etc.

    A MAF system measures intake of air into the engine in grams per seconds usually. If the ECM knows which amount of air is coming into the engine it does not need to know what amount of vacuum is being created to calculate load and injection pulse width etc.

    I am by no means a professional writer or teacher, but this is my understanding of these systems and how I approach them.

    So by passing these systems means you need some knowledge of how they work and how (if possible) to circumvent them.

    So after writing all this since I have time to do so since I am on medical leave from work, I hope my typo is forgiven.;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  13. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Now don't get me wrong, if this car is in pristine condition rust wise, these are awesome engines and will run forever and worth some minimal investment. I had a 92 accord myself with the blue vin tag. Which meant it was a real japan car. These 2.2l 4bangers would run easy 500k km's with minimal maintenance. That meant you could drive the wheels off these cars for 25k km's a year for 20yrs and still have a daily driver if the rust didn't get to it.

    As a professional car tech who works on cars everyday, the last thing I want to do is fix my own cars. I miss these cars as they just had go in the hood forever. That is also why I like toyota's. Those things also are like a singer sewing machine for me. They run forever. If I want a pos of shyte car I know I will have to fix every weekend, I usually buy a mustang or something else similar. But those are usually weekend summer cars.

    I have known many a client who had accords, camry's, echo's etc and just got rid of the cars cuz they were sick of them and could not wait for them to blow up. But they wouldn't. Hence the resale price of these cars stayed steady and was always a good bang for the buck.

    I am pretty sure any pro tech here will second me on one client or other just plain saying I want a new one cus I am sick of this one, it just won't die. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  14. Parkman

    Parkman Sr. Member

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    You are 100% right ! I have a 92 tercel I bought with a rod out 8yrs ago. I rebuilt the motor because it had a rust free body and been driving it ever since. It is a 5 speed and gets close to 50 mpg in the warmer months. But the honda body is in pretty rusted condition even though it DID run well with about 200,000 miles on it, so it probably will be a power train donor for someone. Thanks again for all your time, I am 71 yrs old ,a retired heavy equip. mechanic and not all that up to these type of vehicles.
     
  15. Mobile Dan

    Mobile Dan wrench

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    If you fix the wires and vacuum hose to get Map sensor working, vehicle should start and run. (You may have to overcome a "fouled spark plug/flooded" situation). Other Control Box components have only a smaller effect on engine performance, assuming wires to those components are not shorted by gnawing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017

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