Where are you now, trying to trouble-shoot, or just force a cranking? Jumper #30 to #87 at the relay sockets to force cranking. If that doesn't cause cranking, then there is either a problem in the wiring between the relay socket and the starter (not so likely) or the starter assembly is bad. By "starter assembly" I mean either the solenoid or motor, but they are usually removed and replaced as one unit. Oh, yeah, if it won't crank with 30 and 87 jumpered, make sure there is 12V at #30...
Diagram confirms the way I thought it would work. Didn't know about the Burglar Alarm Circuit and another Relay, though! This relay from Radio Shack (part 275-001, 12VDC/40A SPST Automotive Relay) would replace the Start Relay. Also, they could energize the Starter Solenoid by pulling the Start Relay and applying 12VDC to Terminal 87 with either a jumper from Battery Positive or probably Terminal 30. Will probably get to look at this tomorrow. THANK YOU!!!
Car's been cranking normally since I started trying to help with this. Of course... I was ready to help them replace the starter, but was reluctant to go that way when there could have been a Start Relay (confirmed today visually and in the diagram) and Relay could be the problem. I guess the next thing is to sit and try it a couple dozen times 30 >> 87. Then get a relay if it cranks every time. Oh, need to find out if it has that Burglar Alarm, but for $7 I'd replace the relay and see if it changes things. Really hoping not to get involved in that starter. Between a cat converter with heat shield and the front side of the engine. Yuck!
1. I should find #30 either A. Always Hot, or B. Hot when Key is in RUN. Looks like your van is "always hot".
2. Jumping #30 to #87 should cause the Starter to Crank YEP!
Easiest "stuck in the rain, picking up the donuts for your church" modification might be to simply wrap a wire around the #87 leg if your relay, then reinstall the relay. Wire will be "hot" while cranking. No crank? Touch the other end of that wire to a 12volt power source, and the starter will crank....unless you have a bad starter, or one of several less likely problems.
YES! I'll get over there with a piece of stranded wire. That'll keep me from having to dig around the starter. That's good because I think the starter solenoid connections can't be reached with the starter mounted. Better than removing the relay box cover, pulling the relay, and jumping 30 >> 87 with a hair pin or paper clip! Thanks, Dan!
Latest, they decided not to tinker with it at home. So I guess if it quits completely it'll get towed to a shop. That said, they're welcome to call me, any time any day if they get stuck and I'll coach them through jumping the relay terminals. That's about all we can do roadside. Just hope the donuts don't spoil. I really hoped we'd get to run this problem to ground and get cranking back to 100%. At least we know there IS a Relay, Where it is, and How to bypass it. May help somebody else. Thank YOU, Gentlemen!
Ask for amperage draw at start up once it is at the shop! Most ppl do not have a amp meter high enough to check draw. But I will repeat myself, these imports with nippon denso solenoids stick and you can see it with an amp meter. Most DYRs don't have one. ouch
To BTW, I like tracter wheels from tim hortons :ROFL http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.recettesecretes.com%2Fimages%2Fphoto%2Froues%252520de%252520tracteur.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.recettesecretes.com%2Fdetail.asp%3Freceipe%3D1347&h=147&w=180&tbnid=QxwiFqwzIxzvJM%3A&zoom=1&docid=f_ZZbqNUtowyQM&ei=VreGU57SKMemyATGiYLYDg&tbm=isch&client=firefox-a&ved=0CCoQMygAMAA&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=2332&page=1&start=0&ndsp=16
I just had an update. Not a solution really but could be pointing to the problem. She got out of the car, with the key, and went to lock with the remote. Would not lock. Opened door. "Key in Ignition" warning chime sounded, but no key in ignition. Had to insert and jiggle the key before removing. Then the car realized the key had been removed. No chime and allowed it to lock remotely. Starting to suspect Ignition Switch...
Ok, still an old post. So the intermittent is not so intermittent.
But I do know these starters suck with those brass contacts. But if you are noticing something with the remote. I would try to replace the battery in the remote, or try the second remote that comes normally with most cars, before condeming the ignition switch. I have worked on many of these kia's and have not seen many failures in the ignition switch. Yet I must say, custumor habits, weathure and location may differ. Sounds like you have a nice quest 8)
Does this Kia have a remote starter or aftermarket sh@t done to it??
It's a stay-at-home/soccer-mom car, so it probably has three times the ignition key activity than its 90-something-thousand miles would indicate. Mile here, two miles there, five miles now... No add-ons. The remote is OEM.
Will try to post back on a reprogram system for remote. Have seen thousands of times in gm models. Does the key look really used? Does she have a new valet key that she could done at her local hardware store? Have seen used keys cause these types of issues. Even if you change the ignition switch, still need a new key fob.
This case is fun enough to warrant an update. The owner decided to take it to a local shop that always found that it cranked. Apparently did that because power train was 100,000-mile warranty and electrical wasn't, not sure about that. Anyhow, no joy there. The ended up taking it to Kia dealer, who said the Relay and the Harness/Fuse Panel it plugs into were trouble prone and replaced both. Still not so good, replaced ignition switch and problems solved. Over a year now and still OK.
Now the funny part. Under warranty, pulled and replaced broken Flywheel/Ring Gear. Again, Warranty. Dealer believes the local shop tore them up with all the starting attempts. Still did warranty on that part.
And, oh, the original Starter is still on the Kia.
I wish she'd just let me run jumper wire and push button to the Relay. Sorta like starting a tractor, but seems it would have saved time, expense, headaches...
Well you 2 are my hero's. I put a jumper on 30 and than another one on 87. Put a fuse on the end of each to play it safe and ran both wires into the cabin. Put in a little push button switch and it works every time. It will start by key or button. Thanks for doing all the leg work for me.